I'm not denying the struggles that Rina faces as someone in her position, but I also think this album was actually low-key divisive, and I think that can get swept under the rug under the impression of there being bigger fish to fry. I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about what worked with this album (Hold The Girl, Catch Me, Holy, My Age, Imagining) and what didn't to varying degrees (This Hell, Send My Love, Hurricanes, Phantom, To Be Alive) but it feels like everyone resets to defending it entirely because anything less would be letting the haters making occasional glib comments in other threads every two months WIN. Probably more repellent than a Danny L Harle produced pop album inspired by turn of the century trip-hop-pop with esoteric lyrics about just being in love. that's going to be repellent to some people. It was massively earnest, as subtle as a hammer to the head, and. I'll probably regret engaging but I think the biggest barrier for this album for a lot of people on this forum - proficently made, true to its artist, and performed within an inch of its life - was Rina's penchant for these sugary, syrupy, sticky melodies combined with lyrics where she was essentially trying to give a big hug to her past self. This came up the last time the thread was in a cycle of being furious at people who don't seem to even bother coming into this thread anymore (unlike me, who is stupid!) where the arguments seemed to be so polarised, "Corny? This is about her TRAUMA.", and "Well what's WRONG with being earnest?!" and to that last one, I say: nothing! But it's obtuse to act like it's not going to be issue for some people's entry into the material, and even more obtuse to act like a song's subject matter shields it from critique or even from just subjective taste. If you want to run with the Caroline comparison, then pretentious art student is probably going to be received better than Rina's extremely earnest theatre student. I don't think soundscape was inherently the problem people had with this album. So of course, you're right that the likes of Dido and Massive Attack don't inherently deserve more respect than Kelly Clarkson and Lady Gaga, but I think it's just a strange point to make in defence of this album.Īlso. Desire feels like it pulls a lot more from that period where trip-hop was crashing into mainstream in the late 90s rather than Rina's mix of 00s pop melodies and early 10s maximalism. Sunset is one of my favorite songs on its parent album but it's still white woman does Flamenco, for example.Ĭlick to expand.I don't particularly disagree with the meat of this where you're talking about that gulf in respect for genres and influences, I just think that Caroline is a strange comparison point, mostly because I don't think they're pulling from the same references as you say. Rina's for reasons that I don't feel are tangible enough to justify the gulf in reception. Both rely on a certain level of pastiche, but Caroline's is given an inherent credibility vs. I'm more so speaking on how pop albums are assessed and why the goal posts tend to feel so tenuous. Once again, I'm not arguing that Hold the Girl is as strong as Desire. I don't recall Rina being afforded that same level of respect when using what's largely viewed as Hot AC soundscapes to unpack queer trauma, which I think is just as laudable as what Caroline accomplishes on Desire. I'm thinking of the interview Caroline did where the interviewer tried to assert that her collaborating with Dido was ironic and everyone here (rightfully) sided with her digging her heels in to the contrary. It goes back to how poptimism as a concept can be vacuous critically because a lot of these reviewers don't really understand pop on a more intricate level, so they aren't retroactively respecting the reference points unless the artist pulling from them has an inherent pedigree they respect (Chairlift laying the groundwork there for Caroline in this case). It isn't about the end result of their sound being similar but rather how it comes from the same source, and how both artists were perceived for mining those references. I would say their reference points being largely from a specific sector of early 00's pop that was deemed 'cheesy'/cringe at one point, which was the focus of my post.
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